Marriage is Beautiful, Divorce Ugly

“We live and have lived in a country that is free for many practical purposes.”

Surely you meant to use the past tense here?

No. Far from it.

I am not a big fan of a lot of where we are, but even less of where we are going.

As a divorced dude, it’s very – mixed. Divorce is ugly and harms children severely. However, it was the in-laws who really pushed it.

I think the reason ex’ing for divorce would be “problematic” (I really hate that word) is that all the charges and counter charges get ugly, and it would require the leadership either taking sides in an ugly dispute, or else punish an innocent party.

My ex and her parents made up all sorts of lies in order to justify the divorce, because the real reason (I wasn’t making enough money and my blue collar background meant I was the wrong sort of person) wouldn’t fly socially, so there were all sorts of claims of physical and emotional abuse that weren’t true here (and likely not true in any adjacent alternate realities). Getting the sealing clearance for my second marriage was a little difficult because of that, but it worked out.

I did get tired of leadership, when I was single after the divorce, constantly asking me if I was abusive or p**n addicted. If I had been ex’d based on lies or the mere fact of a divorce I didn’t file for, it probably would have severely damaged my relationship with the Church.

The real problem was that so many of my ex-wife’s friends (nearly all members) were like “sometimes it’s best to just end things when they aren’t working” instead of “you guys were sealed in the temple; take that seriously.” It made me realize many “active” members are quite lukewarm.

TuT2,

Great comment. You’re absolutely right why we don’t excommunicate and why it’s probably for the best. Also absolutely right on how casual are LDS culture has gone about divorce. In my experience people don’t bother making up stories about abuse much anymore. Locally we had two recent divorces where the women were just shrugging and saying, meh, not that into him anymore… And our collective response was, so brave, here, be the new relief society president.

Three sides to divorce: his side, her side, the truth.

Reasons can be made public or kept private. Reasons can be true or false (imagined or rationalized, not necessarily knowingly confabulated).

Therefore, a publicized reason could be true or false. And a reason (or a “charge”) that is kept private or hidden by one party could be accurate or inaccurate.

Therefore, “hearing both sides” is meaningless, or doesn’t benefit much, if one or both parties decide to keep some things hidden or private.

Sometimes, not even the children know the hidden/unspoken reasons.

Sometimes the dump-er never tells the dump-ee, or anyone, the hidden reason.

Sometimes the dump-ee denies the dump-er’s charges, or can’t see that the charge(s) are in fact true.

Sometimes the dump-ee is actually the one who wants out, and manipulates/offends the other into becoming the dump-er.

Sometimes the tit-for-tat has escalated and gone so many rounds that both sides become equally guilty, and the original offense becomes meaningless in comparison.

I am aware of more than one situation where I think the wife committed adultery because she thought that was the only way to get a divorce from a controlling abusive husband.

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I also believe that a toxic marriage can lead to a toxic family, and the children don’t see it until/unless they realize they are playing out the same scenarios with their own spouse and children.

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When I hear/read talks like this one, I am reminded of when both Pres Nelson and Pres Oaks said that the Apostles teach the rules, not the exceptions.
https://indybooks.blogspot.com/2005/12/rules-exceptions-quote-by-russell-m.html

You forgot the child’s side.

It is this side that has convinced me to be close to an anti-divorce absolutist.

theforgottenside: I gave consideration to that, and came to this conclusion: while the children do suffer effects, perhaps suffering the most, and … they can usually closely _observe_ what goes on outwardly, they can also have the least amount of _understanding_ of what happens, and _why_ it is happening.

This is especially true when an emotionally abusive husband has cowed his wife into thinking her mistakes and alledged unworthiness or alleged stupidity is why he is justificd in yelling and belittling.

If the husband/father does X and the wife/mother lets him get away with it, and never pushes back, the kids think X is normal. The sons will tend to grow up and do X in their marriage, and the daughters will tend to marry men who do X.

In one instance I’m thinking of, two decades ago, the children could not see the father’s abuse of the mother because it was “the normal.”

In another instance (this was decades ago, too) the bishop’s son and most of the ward could not conceive of any valid reason why the bishop’s wife divorced him. Only those who caught a glimpse of the bishop’s emotional cruelty towards her could put the pieces together, as she never publicized her reasons.

So, yeah, the children have a “side” or a “version of events”, but… it’s either going to align with one of the parents, and be even less-informed than either parent.

It wasn’t until I was in my 40’s and 50’s that I started to learn the back-story
of my toxic parents, and how I fell into the same patterns, had the same
flaws, and committed some of the same sins.

As I started to connect the dots, I realized that the connections can go back generations. They were following patterns too. They were also products of familial and childhood trauma and tragedy.

I’m afraid none of your reasons have moved me. My opinion is born out of experience. We need to repent.

“Emotional cruelty” is a lovely justification, and carries about as much weight as “health of the mother”. We need to repent.

“Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

As I look back, sometimes I think I would prefer to have been physically abused than emotionally/mentally abused. At least then I could have shown someone the bruises.

Yes, repentance is the best solution. But that does not always happen. What can the “victim” spouse then do?

It is an interesting question: Which is better, to grow up with one parent, or to grow up with two co-dependent parents, one who needs to abuse and the other who needs to be abused?

As far as I know, it is Heavenly Father who ultimately decides which spirit is born to which parents. And as His decisions are perfectly wise and are for our long term highest benefit, I am led to believe that my parentage was what I “needed.” And that is a very sobering thought.

Divorce doesn’t end the flaws of the parents. You still have the same flawed parents after, as before.

Bookslinger is right – in the most extreme of cases.

The fact is, no matter how “toxic” our relationship might have been, I don’t really care about the damage done to me. I got remarried and am doing fine (and she’s perfectly fine not having to deal with a spouse while letting her parents pay all the bills as she collects alimony and child support).

Our kids, though, are horribly damaged by the divorce, and I am 100% sure that our staying together would have been less damaging than the divorce.

For one thing, I don’t think my oldest would have become so suicidal – and, I have actual proof my ex in-laws were physically abusive to my kids. However, Child Services won’t even consider my proof, as they consider me just a vindictive ex-husband trying to make trouble (since men, in family court, are second-class).

@Jacob, re: flaws. Sure. Repentance and growth is best. But sometimes the only workable solution is to separate the abuser from the abused.

The O.P. and all the comments are “correct” in their own circumstances.

To quote the prophets:

Elder Russell M. Nelson, of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
CES Fireside for Young Adults, February 6, 2005. Brigham Young University

“Through the years you will note that apostles and prophets teach the rule. We don’t teach exceptions to the rule. Exceptions are left to individual agency and accountability. The Lord knows we live in an imperfect world. He knows it is ‘ripening in iniquity’ (D&C 18:6). His judgments will be fair, just, and merciful.”

Elder Oaks explained the same principle in a talk given May 1, 2005, at a CES broadcast, and reprinted in the June 2006 Ensign.

“The explanation I gave that man is the same explanation I give to you if you feel you are an exception to what I have said. As a General Authority, I have the responsibility to preach general principles. When I do, I don’t try to define all the exceptions. There are exceptions to some rules. For example, we believe the commandment is not violated by killing pursuant to a lawful order in an armed conflict. But don’t ask me to give an opinion on your exception. I only teach the general rules. Whether an exception applies to you is your responsibility. You must work that out individually between you and the Lord.”

Divorce is ugly. Marriage is beautiful. I was divorced. Remarried. Then soon after, divorced again to marry my original husband. This was difficult and agonizing, for the embarrassment and self-doubt it caused, among other things. And we had much work to do, regaining trust and love. Yet I thank God every day that this was possible for me. Our circumstances were and are unusual, I suppose. But for the kids’ sake—I am so, so grateful. And it opened my eyes to the ways that I had fooled myself into thinking things would be different in a different marriage. Well, yes and no. I was still myself, with my flaws and strengths.

God bless you Anon.

The issue with citing abuse statistics is the unspoken assumption that repentance is not possible. If a partner is abusive, the other is expected to leave them, period, and if they choose not to greater culture condemns them as stupid and gluttons punishment.

HOWEVER – lasting, complete repentance can and does happen. I know because have seen it happen at close quarters. Abusive partners are seen by our society as irredeemable, but according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, no one is irredeemable. We preach to our Youth that there is nothing they can do to make them undeserving of the Love of God, but we don’t act as though we really believe it. Repentance and healing can save marriages, mend broken hearts, and keep families together.

And many times, it is not one spouse who is the abuser and the other the abused. Both spouses can learn and grow and repent of the things that cause conflict in their relationship.

“Well,” she said with a smile, “several years ago I was in a hurry to get married, and quite frankly, after a few months I realized I had married the wrong man.” She continued, “He had no interest in the Church as he had initially led me to believe, and he began to treat me very unkindly for several years. One day I reached the point where I felt I could go on no longer in this situation, and so in desperation I knelt down to pray, to ask Heavenly Father if He would approve of my divorcing my husband.

“I had a very remarkable experience,” she said. “After I prayed fervently, the Spirit revealed a number of insights to me of which I had been previously unaware. For the first time in my life, I realized that, just like my husband, I am not perfect either. I began to work on my intolerance and my impatience with his lack of spirituality.

“I began to strive to become more compassionate and loving and understanding. And do you know what happened? As I started to change, my husband started to change. Instead of my nagging him about going to church, he gradually decided to come with me on his own initiative.

“Recently we were sealed in the temple, and now we spend one day each week in the temple together. Oh, he’s still not perfect, but I am so happy that the Lord loves us enough to help us resolve our problems.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1993/10/a-mighty-change-of-heart?lang=eng