Whom Would Jesus Sit With
There’s a new LDS podcast called Spiritual Arson.
Here’s some ideas I got from them
Whom would Jesus sit with? The sinners. Yeah, but who are the sinners? Who are the people we actually loathe? The answer is going to be real uncomfortable. We don’t mind sitting down with fornicators because we officially view that as sin but our society doesn’t, so its pretty stress free. If you want the real shocking impact of what Christ was doing, if you really want to have to grapple with it, imagine him sitting down to eat with racists who use the N-word. Or substitute whatever else would be horrifying and unthinkable. We think of the Pharisees as the Jewish equivalent of the crazy Church people. In reality they were the Jewish equivalent of the opinion makers and the intellectual fashion setters.
The Spirit gives you peace in tension, not peace from surrendering to make the tension go away.
The Father doesn’t want small children. He doesn’t want small gods.
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bruce g charlton
August 30, 2021
Sorry but I think this misses the point wholesale and sets up a false trail.
Who are the sinners? Everyone, of course.
Christ’s concern with sinners was that All Men are sinners, yet Heaven is open to those Men (necessarily sinners) who love and will follow Jesus through death to resurrection (and such Men will be more than happy to repent and be rid of their sins).
The was what Jesus did for Men – and the primary point is that each of us can now make that choice of resurrection.
Jesus is essentially about what happens after we die (and secondarily how this affects our mortal lives); not about how or with-whom the historical Jesus spent his social time, nor about analogies with modern social behaviours.
G.
August 30, 2021
Bruce C,
The point you are making is the point I thought I was making. Repentance is for everyone, not just the people who commit the socially approved “not that bad” sins. Thanks for expressing it well.
JimD
August 30, 2021
Say, whatever happened to the True Blue Mormon podcast? I was searching YouTube for it the other day and couldn’t find it.
jorgen b
August 30, 2021
Sinners just meant they ate pork at that time. It didn’t mean immoral people. Because Judaism doesn’t care about morals. So Jesus sat with moral people who ate pork.
Zen
August 30, 2021
Jorgen – that is a gross misreading of the Old Testament. It is very much concerned with morals.
JimD – I echo that. What happened to the TBM podcast?
Bookslinger
August 30, 2021
Zen: I assumed Jorgen got the tense wrong, and actually meant Pharisitical Judaism of 33 AD. If so, he has a point.
If I were to parse it literally, as meaning present day Judaism, it could mean he is anti-Semitic. Or, he could be implying current Western (“Reform”) Judaism is as corrupt/immoral as current Western mainline Protestantism, in which case he would also have a point.
—
Re: the podcast. Think back to an email message from el jefe a while ago.
William James Tychonievich
August 31, 2021
Jesus was criticized for socializing with publicans — Jews who worked as tax farmers for the Romans — not with pork-eaters.
Sute
August 31, 2021
Good points. I think it’s especially eye opening, even trembling to think that Jesus had little to say about the Nazi regime of his day, and just asked his below jews to focus of God and neighbor.
I’m constantly trying to bring this reality up everytime masks, shutdowns, vaccines, etc come up in church.
While those things are no doubt important and we may be concerned with them, it’s not the kind of things he was concerned with giving his focus, even if he might disagree with various aspects of it.
In refusing to fight every battle, and focusing on the one that mattered most, he overcame all things.
Sute
August 31, 2021
*fellow Jews
Rozy
August 31, 2021
“Jesus had little to say about the Nazi regime of his day” That’s certainly true, he said little about the Romans, but he had plenty to say about the Pharisees and Sadducees, calling them plenty of damning names.
I hope Jesus would have sat with me, one who struggles with various and sundry sins while trying to overcome and be obedient. I hope he would have sat with three of our sons who have varying degrees of disbelief, who don’t keep important commandments, but are basically pretty good men.
I think Jesus sat with those who were lost, but longing for home; blinded but exercising a particle of faith; troubled but teachable. He had a super power that I lack, the ability to read thoughts and intents of the mind and heart.
I’m so grateful he did and does sit with us sinners!
Bookslinger
August 31, 2021
The close follow-on to the stated question is who would/should we sit with and minister to as the Savior’s agents? And then what should we say and do as the Savior’s mouthpieces, hands and feet?
The Brethren have recently simplified and clarified it for us: love, share, and invite.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/share/worldwide-leadership-broadcast-on-sharing-the-gospel
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/how-to-share/introducing-love-share-and-invite
JimD
September 1, 2021
@Books—I guess I missed the email . . .
Rusty
September 1, 2021
First, I wanted to thank the folks commenting at this blog for their insight and overall goodwill towards each other. I’ve been trying to find people who can talk about the gospel without the conversation turning into a contest, and I’m pleased at the overall quality of thinking at this site. Bravo
I think @Books has a good point, that the Brethren have made this a little more simple and added some clarity. I think I would add, and I invite counterpoints on this, that as an individual I don’t need to worry so much about which groups or categories of individuals to minister to, but to focus on working with those who are in my sphere of influence. I’m on person, after all, but collectively as a body of saints we can have a tremendous influence on the nations of the earth.
I think scripture bears this out. Jesus talks about in the scriptures how He was to minister to Israel only, making some exceptions (like the Roman officer who wanted his servant healed) but made it clear to the Twelve that their charge would be to the nations of the Earth. I’m not sure why the Savior focused on Israel in His earthly ministry, but it seems like the game is a bit different today, with the idea that Israel, wherever they are, is to be gathered to Zion.
So that’s my focus as an individual- minister to whoever is in my influence, be a light as much as possible, and look for Israel.
Sorry for the long comment.
G.
September 1, 2021
Welcome, Rusty.
Comment length is not a concern of ours
jorgen b
September 1, 2021
@Zen, “Jorgen – that is a gross misreading of the Old Testament. It is very much concerned with morals.”
The Jews of the first century didn’t follow the Old Testament any more than the Jews of today. They didn’t have a written Talmud yet, but they followed made up Babylonian traditions that would be written down in the Mishnah in 200 AD.
G
September 2, 2021
That is more than enough of that
Sute
September 4, 2021
Roxy,
“but he had plenty to say about the Pharisees and Sadducees, calling them plenty of damning names”
True enough. And again he called Peter worse – satan, and a stumbling block to the Lord himself.
No matter how much we’d like otherwise, Aslan is not a tame lion. How could he be when you consider the state of this world. What he did was incomprehensible. What he allows to this day is unfathomable.
It demonstrates to me that so much of what consumes our focus be it presidents and politics or viruses and vaccines; all of it pales in comparison to looking to God and living our life trying to follow him.
His kingdom is not of this world. He wanted nothing to do with earthly powers and principalities. The left and the right in the church and nation at large get too worked up in their issues.