Age of Marriage

I agree (although I myself did the opposite…) – but late/ never/ infertile/ subfertile marriage is actually a symptom of a deeply (fundamentally) sick society (and subgroups of society). It is also a spiritual symptom – ultimately. Therefore, I don’t believe it can be targetted as such – the problem of late/ not marriage can only improve *after* the causes improve – and I think this applies to the CJCLDS in microcosm, and well as the world at large.

(Note: Unchosen, unpreventable high fertility among poor/ ignorant/ chaotic populations is what drives world population growth – which continues very fast; but that is a very different issue from what we want – which is chosen early marriage and high fertility – including/ especially among intelligent, educated, conscientious, Christian people.)

Dare I say it? Our youth, for a couple of generations, have been brainwashed in the public schools and by the media that sowing wild oats, getting an education and then a career established, traveling and partying, etc. are all more important than getting married and having children. On top of that they’ve been fed the notion that the earth is not full of resources to sustain God’s children, but that there are too many people and we’ll run out of resources if we don’t cut down on population. And raising a child costs over $200,000! EACH! Baldersash, hogwash and sheepdip!
I think we could learn much from the attitudes, old-fashioned as they are, of the Amish and others like them. Marriage is honorable and desirable; children are a blessing and the more the better.
With all that the LDS members know about the Plan of Happiness, and from The Family: A Proclamation to the World, it is astonishing that we don’t have a higher birth rate. (I’m fully aware that some can’t have more children; one grandma had 15, the other had 2 and wanted a dozen, but couldn’t.)
If there is anything I wish I could get across to the young adults it would be this: Marriage is an act of faith that takes two committed to living the Gospel of Jesus Christ and learning to be like the Savior; having children takes faith rather than time or money. When we are obedient to the command and covenant to be fruitful and multiply, the Lord prepares and opens the way for us to do so.

I agree we everything said in the post and comments. We don’t fully comprehend the scale and scope of social, economic, political, and familial problems that are linked to declining, postponing and eliminating families.

It shouldn’t be surprising, but everything is linked to it.

While I am all for early marriage and family formation (I, myself, was barely 22 when I married), I also think there is a very strong case for women to get a college degree before having children, and that’s something that the original post and article ignores. I think there should be more nuance in the conversation on this topic that allows and acknowledges women and their contributions that go beyond childbirth and child-rearing. Brigham Young himself was a huge advocate for women’s education. In my adult experience I’ve seen the wide variation in parenting styles and on the whole, college-educated women make better mothers. Less PPD, more confidence, more elements in their lives that keep them sane in the chaos of mothering toddlers and teenagers. Women in the 1950s were taught that their wants and needs were always to come last and that it was selfish to say no to your husband in anything (and I mean ANYTHING). It’s no accident that a huge spike in divorce rates came less than two decades later. Desires for self-respect and personal improvement and even independence are not wicked.

I have two daughters and my biggest hope for them is that they will reach for the stars and accomplish great things – and then choose to give it up to have a family. That decision is made more holy by making it a DECISION.

To “A woman”: “That decision is made more holy by making it a DECISION.”
I guess that means that the prodigal son was the better person because he went out and saw what the world had to offer BEFORE making the all important decision to return to his home and be obedient.
Thanks for putting down all the women who decided from the beginning to pursue marriage and family as their first choice rather than their last.

Rozy,

You mischaracterized my comments and not in a kind way. I never said that motherhood should be the last choice. I never said that wickedness and selfishness were things to be pursued. I only suggested that women can be – and that God WANTS us to be – more than baby factories. Even my great-grandmother who married young and had 15 children was educated and was a great force in her community. What I objected to was that the original article distills a woman’s value to only her reproductive value, which is dehumanizing and demeaning.

A Woman,

You make points that are worth considering. Allow me to note that you are arguing against something that neither I nor the linked article said.

Fundamentally, however, I feel that the kinds of arguments you are making are deeply reactionary. they are arguing as if the world of the 1950s were the world of today.

An epidemic of women who are forgoing college degrees and careers for children and family is not where we are at. I think it is very possible for a woman to start her family early and to get a degree. But I also honor those women who have made the increasingly lonely and courageous decision that having family was their priority and they would take their chances on the degree.

May I also note that ‘baby factory’ is a smear term invented and popularized by people with wicked views. If you are trying to reach out to those of us in the pro-family and pro children minority and suggest some nuance or additional points for us to consider, language like that does not help at all.

G: I parsed her use of the term to be on the good side of it. As the slur is still made, I think it proper to counter it, to head it off, as I thought she did.

A secondary problem is that a few women of low self-esteem, even in the church, see child-bearing/rearing as their only-calling/purpose in life, not as the highest-calling. The view of only-calling/purpose can lead to smothering the children, and neglect of the marriage itself.

(And over the years, more than a few young people who hadn’t yet gained a big-picture view of the restored gospel, have _interpreted_ some older folks’ words, even some GAs speaking at Gen Conf, to mean child-bearing/rearing was to be women’s only calling. They may end up rejecting the church/gospel based on their false interpretation and failing to see the bigger picture of all the parts.)

Such may be congruous to a husband who thinks his sole purpose is to bring home a paycheck and be the disciplinarian.

Such a couple, together, could lose their children’s hearts, and lose the marriage.

As more than one general authority has taught, the ideal parent/children relationships are built upon proper and solid husband-wife relationships.

Divorce is bad for children. But I’ve also seen marriages so toxic that “mend it or end it” was probably better than the staus quo.

Come to think of it, the “highest calling” phrase is almost always used with “wife and mother”, not “mother.” Giving emphasis that the wife part not just precedes the mother part temporally, but also foundationally.

G, I’ve always had the impression that you saw the same foundational precedence, or at least that you had a gut feel for it, even before you began to articulate it.

“In my adult experience I’ve seen the wide variation in parenting styles and on the whole, college-educated women make better mothers.”

And all it took was decades of propaganda convincing the most competent, intelligent, and conscientious women in our society that a college degree is a must.

Education is good; but both women and men need to be wary of the lie that a quality education can only come at the hands of a duly accredited university program.

Young men and women of good faith (and their parents who intend to bankroll the young persons’ investments in their future) should also bear in mind that, with very few exceptions, the modern American university system is designed in large part to persuade women to allow themselves to become the sexual playthings of amoral men.

I would add, that while Mother and Wife are the highest calling for a woman, that does NOT exclude employment or education. In fact, it can be a way to better fulfill those tasks.

I suppose, it comes down to *WHY* you are doing those things.

Excellent comments from MC (correlation/causation), JimD (“You’re teaching my child WHAT?” -Dr. Miriam Grossman), Zen (not only/just).

and Rozy, too. 1965 was the “eve of destruction”, according to this 4 part podcast, and guest author:
https://audioboom.com/search/posts?q=john+batchelor+show+eve+of+destruction&sort_by=recent