What’ll We Call the Mormon Scouts?

I suggest nixing acts of kindness before even choosing a name.

Well, they were originally called MIA scouts. In 1909, independent scout troops started popping up in America. The BSA organized in 1910, but it would be a few years before it started claiming a monopoly on the word “scout.” In November 1911, the LDS church’s general YMMIA board started MIA scouts, and in May 1913, the church accepted the BSA invitation to merge MIA scouts into the BSA. As the intellectual property rights stand now, I don’t think anyone but BSA and the Girl Scouts can use the word scout for a youth programs.

About twenty years ago, the LDS Primary decided to take away all the class names. I remember visiting one building in the stake soon after the change, and they had made the ages into names: Doors had fancy decorated labels identifying that the rooms belonged to “The Sevens,” or “The Nines,” etc. After a couple years, the words Sunbeam, CTR and Valiant were brought back. I always thought “Blazer Scouts” sounded more fun than “Eleven-Year-Old Scouts.” I should have kept using that name more, just as I still usually say “MIA” instead of “Young Men’s/Young Women’s.” I’m surprised that we still have Beehives, MIA-Maids, and Laurels. Especially MIA-Maids.

It’s “Danites,” but keep it a secret.

4 or 5 years ago, the Gen YM President said that our contingency plan was to just roll out the expanded Duty to God that the Church uses overseas, so unfortunately probably no Nauvoo Legion or Mormon Battalion.

Nauvoo Legion really has a good sound to it.

Just don’t use Stripling Warriors.
You know what stripling means, and I know what stripling means, but that would lead to a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.

“Dumbledore’s”–er, “Monson’s Army”.

I expect there won’t be any significant replacement for scouting, part of a general lessening of wards and stakes and a rise of clans.

I vote for Nauvoo Legion. If we’re creating a BSA successor then it’s only right that it be a paramilitary organization, right? But that uniform is a bit too Napoleonic for my tastes.

My Dad actually has an old Nauvoo Legion belt buckle that was passed down from the days of Nauvoo, ended up with a branch of the family that became disassociated with the church, and was used for playing dress-up. A distant cousin that my Dad met gave it to my Dad when he saw how excited he got about it.

A few other possibilities:
Brigham’s Vanguard Company
Zeniff’s Explorers
The Mountaineers of the Lord / Zion’s Mountaineers

I vote for ‘Celestial Forces.’
Everyone starts out as a general.

How about Christian Scouts? This would get a lot of interest and generate plenty of discussion in much of the country.
Down and Back brigade?
Some of the pioneer themes are certainly appropriate.
If going with a Captain Moroni theme then Young Freemen?

Danites was the first thing that popped into my mind. 🙂

I expect what G said about using the overseas program.

That Raise the Bar thing came none too soon. 8 year olds baptized in 2002 grew up under the stricter primary/youth program, went on their missions in 2012 as 18 year olds, and came back just last year.

Young Padawans works for me.

I recognize the LDS connection is obscure.

Back when I was in high school, Time Magazine ran its infamous “Mormons Inc.” cover story. Accompanying the article inside was a photo of hundreds of missionaries, some shouting, arms raised, holding flags, like an army arrayed for battle. The implication of the picture was clear: The Mormons are coming, and you should be afraid.

I loved that picture.

Very interesting post and comment threads – there seems to be an implicit consensus that if/ when the Mormons found a youth group to replace scouts, the chances are that the media will put a negative spin onto it.

The mythical Danites (which few people nowadays have heard of) may be the mildest comparison, and Hitler Youth perhaps a more likely slur.

Anti-Gates-Baden-Powellites. Duh!

I am not at all enthused about military or paramilitary names, especially when something based on pioneering, a much less militaristic theme, is readily at hand. Mutual Improvement is also available and stresses the cooperative nature of the endeavor. Our heritage is about irrigating the desert and making the wilderness blossom like a rose. That should be the metaphor for educating our youth.

The Camp of the Saints?

Leo,

Your aversion to military metaphors is probably shared by most people of influence in this matter. On the other hand, the entire concept of “scouting” has its roots in British military adventures. And I’m cooking up a blog post about how the military metaphor for the Gospel is maybe underappreciated.

Weltanschauung,

If you’re joking, then congrats, I laughed. If not:

http://www.amazon.com/Camp-Saints-Jean-Raspail/dp/1881780074/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439143398&sr=8-1&keywords=camp+of+the+saints

*And I’m cooking up a blog post about how the military metaphor for the Gospel is maybe underappreciated.*

Maybe?

Food will be as ashes in my mouth, and drink as dust, until this blog post is produced.

Indeed. The enemy really does mean to bring about our utter destruction, by any means fair or foul. War is a perfectly good analogy.

MC,

Yes, the paramilitary nature of scouting is there for all to see.

I would be very happy if my aversion to military metaphors is shared by most people of influence in this matter. I hope this is indeed so.

I’m pretty sure that the idea that we are at war with the powers of darkness isn’t just a metaphor. In fact, if anything, the relationship is the other way around. War is a metaphorical restatement in a lower key of the metaphysical reality.

There is indeed a spiritual war going on, but it is being fought on an different level and requires a different response than a military battlefield. The spiritual war requires long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, and love unfeigned. As Charles Williams put it, there is no need to be too hard against anyone on behalf of omnipotence.

In 3rd Nephi, the Savior did not take up the Sword of Laban and launch a successful military campaign. He did something much more effective.

Instead of killing them by the sword one by one, he massacred them by the job lot, 3 Nephi 9.

What he did wasn’t a military campaign in the same sense that a nuclear strike has moved beyond being a “military campaign.”

I understand where you are coming from. D&C 121 is one of the most moving passages in scripture. Clearly revelatory. But reality is revelatory too, and so is the Old Testament (where are the firstborn of Egypt? where are the sons of Jericho and the daughters of the Amalekites? How lonely are the cities that were once so full of people!) The military metaphors in scripture aren’t the interpolations of wicked scribes. In fact, some of them, like the title “Lord of Hosts,” I suspect aren’t metaphors at all.

I don’t know how to completely reconcile these aspects of scripture with the pure tenderness and love we feel from the Holy One. I suspect that it may be impossible for the mortal mind to do it completely. I begrudge no one whatever make shift they come up with to tolerate the contradiction for now. At the same time, its still there.

“Instead of killing them by the sword one by one, he massacred them by the job lot, 3 Nephi 9.”

Men, women, and children. To be sure, there may not have been so many children, by analogy with our own wicked society. Still.

You can’t wish away the problem of evil. In fact, it seems to be one of the necessary conditions of our mortal probation.

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, but not to us. Earthquakes are an inevitable part of geology. Bad things happen, and all men die. The righteous can be warned to flee out of the cities of the wicked. The wicked don’t receive or won’t heed the message. Even when bad things happen to good people, the innocents are received into a state of happiness.

The sword is only to be used in defense and only when the Lord permits or commands. The problem is that our natural inclination (the natural man) is warlike. I believe it was Spencer W. Kimball who said that we (meaning America I assume) are a warlike people. I am not a pacifist, and I served in the military, but I believe we have become too militaristic. We glory too much in war. Christ is the Prince of Peace.

If that’s the interpretation that works for you, I won’t gainsay it.

The War in Heaven is continued on Earth. While I prefer to imagine it in terms of Medieval weaponry (and lightsabers), we all know it was a spiritual battle, with two opposing sides trying to dominate. Either one would be happy to let the other side live, as long as it won. Living, is really irrelevant to both sides, because it is such a temporary state. There are some fine lines about that in The Screwtape Letters.

It is only occasionally that physical battles really do have sufficient spiritual consequences, and the Lord does get involved. Have you noticed how often the title Lord of Hosts in used? That is more accurately translated, Lord of the Heavenly Hosts, or if you need bluntness, Lord of Heaven’s Armies. That is what those hosts were – Armies… not the person who seated you at The Olive Garden.

Yes, us personally, the Lord has given us very strict commands about fighting, war, self-defense and vengeance. (There goes my part-time job as The Dark Knight) But he has also at times commanded war. Nephi was not given a way past dealing with Laban. Sometimes (and often when we really don’t want to) we are commanded to do things.

Last point, I don’t think our current political quadmire is going to be fixed militarily. I honestly think we will be in concentration camps before the Lord plays that card. It is interesting to note, that the Book of Mormon has two stories about concentration camps… why?

That said, I really need to do a post about the Council at Adam-ondi-Ahman.

Apparently there are fundamentalist scout organizations trying to stay true to the teachings of Lord Baden-Powell. In America, there was a B-P Scouts Association organized last decade that has faded away, maybe because they used the word “scouts.” There is now a B-P Service Association with a couple dozen troops with names like 702nd Desert Mountain Rangers and 505th Rio Grande. (Not all troops are numbered after telephone area codes.) BPSA is part of a World Federation of Independent Scouts.

Zen – the BoM also speaks of most all men falling away into disbelief, despite having living prophets with them. Hopefully that trial isn’t in the future.

Put me down for Mormon Battallion.

But behold, I am a man, and do sin in my wish.

Having thought about it, I see some P.R. problems with anything military in the name. I see that as a (poor) reflection on the larger society more than a reflection on the Church or the military, but there it is.

I wonder if it could be a specifically Christian name. The religious aspect should be integral, but perhaps accepting of some non-Mormon scouts.

In order to avoid lawsuits (for denying leadership positions to open and practicing homosexuals) it may be necessary to limit leadership positions (and perhaps scouts too) to those who are “members in good standing” of the sponsoring/chartering organization.

Without that as part of the charter, even a new independent “scout like” group could get sued. IE, keep everything in the church, and church rules apply. As soon as you open something to the general public, a new set of legal standards come into play.