Junior Ganymede
We endeavor to give satisfaction


July 12th, 2017 by G.

There are prophets, scriptures, and things said and done in holy places that support the point of view that Eve’s tasting of the fruit was a deliberate, wise choice.

On the other hand, there are prophets, scriptures, and things said and done in holy places that suggest it was something like a sin. The language of cursing and punishment is used, and Eve says she was beguiled.

And there is this amazing passage from Moses, where Eve eats the fruit because she thought it would taste good. A very human motive, by the way. (There is a real sense of character in this passage, both from the fruit eating and from the bit about placidly strolling around afterwards. Eve is one of those statuesque, classical, bovine Augustan ladies).

12 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it became pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make her wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and also gave unto her husband with her, and he did eat.

13 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they had been naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons.

14 And they heard the voice of the Lord God, as they were walking in the garden, in the cool of the day; and Adam and his wife went to hide themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

The Fall is not really our answer to the problem of evil like it half is and was for the Christians of the creeds. Instead it is our acknowledgement that evil exists and needs to be overcome (which is the real problem of evil).

All the same, although I would not call it Official Mormon Doctrine ™, there is solid and sourced belief among us that Christ came only to our earth, that there are other earths of the Father for which He died, but that our Earth of all earths was selected because of its unique wickedness. But then we have the anti-Copernican question of why our Earth is special?

The answer may be that something about the Fall here was sinful, and that though similar things were done in other worlds, something was done wrong here, and that legacy of wickedness and punishment continues today. In other words, the Fall for Mormons could be the answer to the problem of evillest.

Comments (10)
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July 12th, 2017 06:09:16

July 12, 2017

I was in the temple last week and was struck by the difference between commandments and covenants. Before the Fall, when we’re like little children–all we get are commandments. There’s no real explaining or consent involved. After the Fall, when we’ve started on the path to maturity, we start to get covenants, a higher form of guiding behavior that involves two-way relationships.

Incidentally, your next-to-last paragraph is strongly supported by Tad Callister’s book The Infinite Atonement, which is one of the very best I’ve ever read.

July 12, 2017

The conscious-choice side seems to be winning over the something-like-a-sin side, at least by the stage direction in the new temple videos, but I’ve always been on the they-weren’t-even-accountable side.

July 12, 2017

Is a sin, a sin, if you are not accountable?
Is a broken leg, a broken leg, if you are not accountable?
Or perhaps more accurately, it was a broken law. The consequence of that law, regardless of how accountable they were, is knowledge and mortality.

July 12, 2017

Mormons want Jesus to apply to all worlds because they’re uncomfortable with the plurality of God’s unified in an infinite Godhood. But that’s just kowtowing to Protestantism.

Bah. That which has been done in other worlds. Adam being the first of all creation. The only reason why we speculate or insist that Jesus must have died for all worlds is because we can’t stand being accused of polytheistic.

It’s pretty obvious we’ve already crossed the Rubicon when we say we believe we can all become like God or that God was once as we are, etc.

Of course, I’m fine not talking about it. It was God that revealed the worlds to Moses. If you want to know ask him yourself. But it’s none of our business what you find out. None of us have the authority to actually pass on that revelation.

July 13, 2017

@[], it was a recent endowment session with one of the new temple videos that prompted this line of thought. The stage direction was a jarring contrast to the stuff about punishment and then Adam and Eve blameshifting and talking about being beguiled.

July 13, 2017

I don’t think you have the right motive there. The reason we want to apply it to all worlds is because it is an “infinite atonement.” It is possible that the atonement can only apply to one world, but it is hard to see why.

July 14, 2017

I would love a temple movie with a slightly ditzy Eve enjoying her conversation with Lucifer, because he’s charming and she likes having friends.

July 14, 2017

My personal belief is that His atonement applies to all worlds for which He was the XO of creation.

el oso
July 17, 2017

I think that is a high majority belief among the saints. I think that the big question is what dqp and G. are getting at: Is Christ the God of many worlds created with the Father, or are there other Saviors of other worlds? Although this clearly has deep theological connotations, the value for our salvation on this earth is fairly limited. This is unlikely to be on the Top 10 list of issues that the church leaders are praying about.

Ben Johnson
July 23, 2017

Maybe it’s a case similar to what we run into down here? We feel prompted to do something, pretty sure we’re in the right, only to wonder why things aren’t turning out quite like we thought.

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