Junior Ganymede
We endeavor to give satisfaction

Most of… the Mormon bloggers… are liberal subversives…

January 23rd, 2014 by Bookslinger

Full quote, from an outsider who looks favorably upon the LDS church:

“Anything can be perverted by Leftism, as Roman Catholics are beginning to wake up to. RCs thought they had everything made clear and consistent in their Catechism and structure of authority, but it has now become very thoroughly corrupted nonethless.

Mormonism, by contrast, has many ‘liberal’ elements (in my opinion Mormonism has most of the genuinely good things about leftism – because of course there are good things about leftism, notwithstanding that it is overall the greatest evil in the history of the world) and yet Mormonism NOW is at its best and on average probably more ‘devout’ than it ever has been (at least since the days of Brigham Young’s theocracy).

But it certainly is under attack. Most of (not all!) the Mormon bloggers, for example, are liberal subversives who have learned absolutely *nothing* from what liberalism has done to the mainstream denominations (ie. shrunk, weakened, inverted and destroyed them).”

Comments (10)
Filed under: Brilliantly Lit,Deseret Review,There are monkey-boys in the facility | Tags: , , , , ,
January 23rd, 2014 18:21:29

Bruce Charlton
January 24, 2014

I say ‘most’ Mormon bloggers because although a blogger may be ‘liberal’ on ‘only’ a single issue (same sex marriage, female priesthood, approving of feminism, approving of socialist economics, pacifism…); history tells us that when it comes to liberalism/ leftism a ‘single issue’ is all it takes: a single issue is *enough* – acting as a *wedge* to penetrate and open-up and break-apart a whole system of thought, a whole way of life, a whole religion.

For example, it could be said that extra-marital sex was the wedge issue that opened Western culture for destruction. After decades of positive propaganda from the intellectual radicals (‘bohemians’) this finally got accepted by mainstream culture in the mid-sixties – first tolerated, then admired, then becoming positively-advocated with the full support of the state.

Public school sex education for all, tacit advocacy of ‘responsible’ promiscuity in ‘loving’ and stable relationships, free contraception, abortion on request, ‘no fault’ divorce on request, psychotherapy and counselling to help with guilt; then the whole culture reshaped so that people should feel proud and empowered by promiscuity instead of guilty…

Nowadays the public vilification and demonization (e.g. as ‘slut shamers’) of those who advocate that sex should only be within marriage…

What next? Who knows? Sacking, fines and prison for ‘slut shaming’?

From tiny beginnings, complete inversion!

It happened to mainstream culture. It happened to mainstream Christian churches. It could happen to Mormonism.

Just one single issue could get it started.

T. Greer
January 24, 2014

Bruce, I am not sure your clarification is necessary. It seems quite evident that the bloggernacle is an overwhelmingly “subversive” place. It is a culture that glories in subversion, where people gather to share all the intellectual, questiony stuff they feel they couldn’t share in their home wards.

This subversiveness is, by and large, why I refuse to take part in the bloggernacle. This blog is the only bloggernacle site I follow–and at first I hesitated to follow it because of how frustrating an experience engaging with bloggernacle has proven to be.

The crux of the problem is one of narrative. Too many Mormons bloggers feel like they are part of a close-minded, group-thinking culture that just needs to be opened up (i.e., subverted) and they are the ones to do it. They are right, of course– they are part of a close-minded, group-thinking culture desperately in need of subversion. What they don’t realize is that the crushing currents of culture that must be resisted is not the Church’s, but the country’s at large and the Church is the instrument of subversion! For an American of my generation I can imagine few things so radical or subversive as a fanatical attachment to standards of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am often at a loss to understand why the bloggernacle does not get this.

My uncharitable side wants to blame it on too many people blogging from Utah.

John Mansfield
January 24, 2014

A couple lines from a Tanya Tucker song forty years ago come back to mind. “You can’t steal a willing mind. Your mom was always looking for a lover.” Ezekial would have liked that song, insofar as tales of whoredom and death (literal or symbolic) can be liked.

Liberalism is just a method. Subversion is the purpose.

Adam G.
January 24, 2014

For what it’s worth, T. Greer, we’ve never considered ourselves to be part of the Bloggernacle. Otherwise, you’re spot on.

T. Greer
January 24, 2014

Adam, it is a dismal observation to make. It first occurred to sometime last summer when I accidentally came across this post and made the mistake of responding to it (comments 7 and 14). And truth be told, I had real trouble understanding where the people who questioned what I wrote (“bikinis could be used in a hyper-sexualized way”) were coming from. I could (and can) sympathize with their emotions and their logic, but I did not understand where they are coming from. It really does seem like they live in a different America than I do.

And the saddest thing of all is that the bloggernacle has so much potential. I think about Clayton Christenson’s missionaryleaders.org website, and just how amazingly fantastic a resource that is for people committed to building Zion today — and I wonder. I wonder just how great a work could be done if all those in bloggernacle busily engaged in picking apart Mormon culture put the same effort into preparing the kingdom for its Lord. If our conversations were about how to be a successful missionary, or how to transform the wards we live in into places of unity and love — what would happen?

It is sad to think about.

January 24, 2014

It seems to me that whether you try to subvert the Church with the World, or the World with the Church, is which you love the most.

And as Nibley loved to point out, over and over, mixing Zion and Babylon always destroys Zion. If Zion is to be Zion, it must not accept Babylon.

Adam G.
January 25, 2014

Zion is a low entropy state.

January 25, 2014

Interesting post at Wheat and Tares. While our brave liberal mentioned how men are affected by immodest women (nevermind that there has never yet been a civilization where men were not enticed by women – the closest we have are gays). But what was not mentioned, was how women in said clothes, perceive themselves.

I recall a study (and I may have to check the details) but while men did worse being tested when around scantily clad women, those same women did worse when dressed that way.

January 25, 2014

I am boggling at the irony of the name “Wheat and Tares.”

And humming a tune by Mozart that I sometimes wish had not been removed from our hymnbook. Though perhaps that use of that title by that blog is a clue why.

April 21, 2015

Adam G’s statement is my favorite. It appears every human and grouping of humans is in flux, and the best you can hope for in the hear-and-now from man is relative goodness.

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