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	<title>Comments on: No One Sane Adopts their Turtle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/</link>
	<description>We endeavor to give satisfaction</description>
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		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/comment-page-1/#comment-215318</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=9281#comment-215318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;theology is necessary; yet once there is a theology there will be questions, and these questions will seem to require answers, and these answers will satisfy some and lead to further questions among others...

When Christianity focuses on theology, then trouble is in the offing, unless there is already great faith, humility, inner discipline and love of God within which theological exploration may occur.

But even then, the corruptions of the world, the limits of knowledge and the feebleness of reason will tend to lead us astray. 
&quot;

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-significance-or-non-significance-of.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;theology is necessary; yet once there is a theology there will be questions, and these questions will seem to require answers, and these answers will satisfy some and lead to further questions among others&#8230;</p>
<p>When Christianity focuses on theology, then trouble is in the offing, unless there is already great faith, humility, inner discipline and love of God within which theological exploration may occur.</p>
<p>But even then, the corruptions of the world, the limits of knowledge and the feebleness of reason will tend to lead us astray.<br />
&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-significance-or-non-significance-of.html" rel="nofollow">http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-significance-or-non-significance-of.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/comment-page-1/#comment-215308</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=9281#comment-215308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some of what he says approaches a kind of Taoist Christianity, if Taoists were practical-minded Anglo-Saxons.  

The Way that can be said is not the true Way.

I think its unlikely he&#039;s going to explode on Mormons as long as we keep marrying and having kids and being disliked by the PC crowd.  He has, unfortunately, elaborated some pretty sterling defenses that allow him to be as sympathetic as he is.

It&#039;s curious, though, that I am in a way relearning the glories of Mormon doctrine from two righteous gentiles, Bruce Charlton and Stephen Webb.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of what he says approaches a kind of Taoist Christianity, if Taoists were practical-minded Anglo-Saxons.  </p>
<p>The Way that can be said is not the true Way.</p>
<p>I think its unlikely he&#8217;s going to explode on Mormons as long as we keep marrying and having kids and being disliked by the PC crowd.  He has, unfortunately, elaborated some pretty sterling defenses that allow him to be as sympathetic as he is.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s curious, though, that I am in a way relearning the glories of Mormon doctrine from two righteous gentiles, Bruce Charlton and Stephen Webb.</p>
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		<title>By: Vader</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/comment-page-1/#comment-215278</link>
		<dc:creator>Vader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=9281#comment-215278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Charlton&#039;s blog is becoming  a significant distraction from my important work of designing weapons of mass destruction. Death Star, Inc., may never be the same.

This particularly jumped out at me:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/02/who-goes-to-hell-for-sure.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;And the thing which induces people to know yet to reject the offer is pride; an insistence upon imposing one&#039;s own, personal, system of evaluation upon reality.

It is not that such people actively want Hell as such, but that they deliberately reject Heaven - because Heaven entails chosen subordination of oneself to God, to Reality, to objective Truth.

It is in this sense that Hell is chosen.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is part of an essay which argues for what is essentially the Mormon understanding of the sin against the Holy Ghost, stripped of some of its legalisms.*

And what this excerpt seems to say is that refusal to subordinate oneself to God is equivalent to refusal to subordinate oneself to reality. It&#039;s a strikingly different picture from the God-as-Oriental-tyrant picture touted by the more militant atheists I know.

My fear is that Charton, having come to appreciate the appeal of Mormonism, is going to start working on a really devastating rebuttal of the &quot;Yes, but...&quot; variety. Of course, he may fail, and draw the obvious conclusion; but I am not an optimist. After all, if he were to abandon his creedal Christian orthodoxy, what would become of him?

*Not that the legalisms are untrue or unimportant. Just that they can be the trees that obscure the forest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlton&#8217;s blog is becoming  a significant distraction from my important work of designing weapons of mass destruction. Death Star, Inc., may never be the same.</p>
<p>This particularly jumped out at me:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/02/who-goes-to-hell-for-sure.html" rel="nofollow">And the thing which induces people to know yet to reject the offer is pride; an insistence upon imposing one&#8217;s own, personal, system of evaluation upon reality.</p>
<p>It is not that such people actively want Hell as such, but that they deliberately reject Heaven &#8211; because Heaven entails chosen subordination of oneself to God, to Reality, to objective Truth.</p>
<p>It is in this sense that Hell is chosen.</a></p></blockquote>
<p>This is part of an essay which argues for what is essentially the Mormon understanding of the sin against the Holy Ghost, stripped of some of its legalisms.*</p>
<p>And what this excerpt seems to say is that refusal to subordinate oneself to God is equivalent to refusal to subordinate oneself to reality. It&#8217;s a strikingly different picture from the God-as-Oriental-tyrant picture touted by the more militant atheists I know.</p>
<p>My fear is that Charton, having come to appreciate the appeal of Mormonism, is going to start working on a really devastating rebuttal of the &#8220;Yes, but&#8230;&#8221; variety. Of course, he may fail, and draw the obvious conclusion; but I am not an optimist. After all, if he were to abandon his creedal Christian orthodoxy, what would become of him?</p>
<p>*Not that the legalisms are untrue or unimportant. Just that they can be the trees that obscure the forest.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/comment-page-1/#comment-215258</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=9281#comment-215258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All theologies are incorrect in detail.
--Bruce Charlton

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-scientists-idea-of-truth.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All theologies are incorrect in detail.<br />
&#8211;Bruce Charlton</p>
<p><a href="http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-scientists-idea-of-truth.html" rel="nofollow">http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-scientists-idea-of-truth.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2013/02/21/no-one-sane-adopts-their-turtle/comment-page-1/#comment-215248</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=9281#comment-215248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Charlton&#039;s post and comments sound like he&#039;s talking himself into Mormonism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlton&#8217;s post and comments sound like he&#8217;s talking himself into Mormonism.</p>
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