Junior Ganymede
We endeavor to give satisfaction

The Liberation Narrative Eclipses Actual Liberation

February 07th, 2013 by Adam G.

Comments (24)
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February 07th, 2013 17:24:35
24 comments

Zen
February 7, 2013

Interesting, but what most gives me fodder for thought, from that article, is how each of the different ‘rights’ movements defined gender. Logical contradictions aside, there seems to be something pernicious and destructive here, in how gender is losing all meaning and definition.


Michael Towns
February 7, 2013

Great post. I have been pondering what the next great frontier was for progressives. Now I know: transgendered folks.

However, I read an article not too long ago that posited that in addition to the transgendered issue, the next slice of ‘rights’ might be those poor souls that are sexually attracted to children.


Zen
February 7, 2013

At first it was just GLBT. But I have been noticing some longer and longer expansions of that. Wikipedia has a list of the variations of acronyms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT#Variants

So,with everything thrown in, there is GLBTQQUCITTSSAAAGLMSM, though the largest in actual use would be FABGLITTER, QUILTBAG, LGBTQIA and LGBTQetc. I will leave it to those with better taste, to decide which is the most ideal term. (by decide, I mean the JrG) Please look over the wiki article. I am not doing it justice.


John Mansfield
February 8, 2013

I think relationships with animals will rise to the level of stumbling block. I’ve seen bits of that already with couples who substitute pets for children. It’s something that is creeping up on us because most people like animals, and we assume that others like them and want to care for them the way they did in the past. It’s to the point that most people now seem to equate getting a dog with adoption of a child and think the dog shares their last name. There will be moves to require accommodation for animals in restaurants and anywhere else a child might be welcome, and to have pet health insurance provided by employers. (Multi-thousand dollar medical procedures for cats is another present sign of what I’m talking about.) I’ve joked that advocates for these things will wish they hadn’t been so successful when leaving a cat alone all day results in a visit from a Pet Protective Services social worker. Normalization of parent-child type relations with animals will then move on to conjugal partnerships.

Within the LDS church there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth because pets aren’t sealed to us in the temples, and because all the mean, backward people who go to church aren’t willing to grant validity to a progressive Mormon’s relationships with his animals. There will be great lamentations that the only reason the church is stuck in that rut is that the prophet hasn’t asked for a revelation to put things right.

It sounds like I’m joking, but I really do expect something like this to grow, distort American life, and snare the sort of Latter-day Saints who like being snared.


Adam G.
February 8, 2013

Zen,
the Jr. Ganymede style book prefers LOLGBT.


Adam G.
February 8, 2013

Who knows, but the arguments are formally the same and liberalism, in and out of the church, has been busy savaging counter-arguments and developing cultural antibodies to them. It could only be an unprincipled exception, which unfortunately recent years have shown not to be as stable in Anglo-American liberalism as I thought.


Zen
February 8, 2013

I have been reading What to Expect When No One is Expecting and I have to say, the author starts off discussing how pet ownership is a mania in upper class parts of the nation and how they have replaced children. I have to say, with very few exceptions, we are already doing most of the things John Mansfield predicted. Pets can already receive an inheritance and sometimes do.

I will wait patiently for the talk of sealings to start.


Bookslinger
February 8, 2013

By correlating scriptures with history, one may deduce that a combination of the breakdown of the family, societal acceptance of homosexuality and prostitution, and widespread child sacrifice/murder can be things that provoke God to wipe out civilizations.

On my current read-through of the BoM it hit me how often the word “abominations” is paired with “wickedness”. I wondered if it was merely a Hebrew literary technique of dualism, as in saying the same thing two ways, or if the intended meaning was to convey abominations that go beyond “mere” wickedness.

I’ve asked myself, what exactly is the author refering to? What is being left unsaid or unspecified?

We often say that the Nephites got wiped out, but not the Lamanites, because the Nephites knew better. But what was the tipping point? What were the Nephites doing towards the end that was worse than the Lamanites? What was so bad that Mormon couldn’t actually write it? Mormon did mention torture and rape of women, and cannibalism. What could be worse than that? I’m thinking it might have been child sacrifice.

We know from the Old Testament and other history of that time period that child sacrifice was likely the final straw of Jerusalem’s final conquest by Babylon. Ritualized prostitution, in the “groves” was going on too.

Homosexuality (ok, homosexual acts, to use the new paradigm) has long been known as “the sin that dare not speak its name.” Could this have been among the abominations that the BoM writers left unsaid? Could this have been one of the things that differentiated the Nephites from the Lamanites?

A related tidbit of history, in his history book “The Incas”, Garcilaso del la Vega, the last Incan royalty, who was adopted and educated by the Spanish, mentions that homosexuality was an abomination to the Incas, and those caught in the act were subject to the dath penalty.


Vader
February 8, 2013

Books,

Homosexual temple prostitution is hinted at in the Book of Mormon.

My impression is that “abomination” is particularly associated with certain forms of idolatry in the Old Testament. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there was a connection to child sacrifice. Particularly since, when Jacob gives his “you’re even worse than the Lamanites” to the rapidly degenerating Nephites of his day, he specifically points out that the Lamanite men loved their wives and children.


Adam G.
February 8, 2013

Bookslinger
February 8, 2013

JM, as per my above analysis, I don’t think things will generally deteriorate to the pet situation you describe. Though there are examples of it already. Societal approval of homosexuality through legalized gay marriage, rampant child sexual abuse, murder of children (most kidnapped children who are kidnapped for sex abuse end up murdered), abortion, etc., will incur the wrath of God upon us first.

We’re not literally sacrificing children on literal stone altars to literal idols. But we’re killing them nonetheless by the millions in abortion clinics and hospitals, and thousands more through kidnap/abuse/murder.

Prostitution is not going on in literal groves of idols, but it is going on in hotels/motels and massage parlors that from outward appearances look to be legitimate businesses.

Speaking of societal sins against children…

We have no idea how many children will not mature out of the normal asexual/homosexual phase of childhood (that period when children think the opposite sex is uncool or icky) because life-long same-sex association will have been presented to them throughout their entire lives by school, media, and society as something normal and acceptable.

In only a few years, in those first states to legalize gay marriage, teens will be coming to the age of sexual activity, after having been brought up their entire lives in a society that says there is nothing wrong or non-optimum about homosexual acts

We have no idea how many angst-ridden teens will turn to homosexual experimentation because they can’t get a date with the opposite sex. Combine the messages of “kids are going to have sex anyway” (free condoms at school) with “nothing wrong with homosexual sex” and tell me it won’t happen. May God have mercy on the teen sexual experimenter who first experiments with homosexual sex, because one’s first sexual experience, whether pleasant or not, does tend to imprint. And may God have mercy on the first time experimenter whose mentor/partner does push the right buttons to generate a sexual response, and convinces them “they must be gay because they liked it.”

(aside: You can check with a professional counselor on this. One of the very common emotional traumas of child abuse, homosexual or heterosexual, is when the abuser does create a sexual response in the victim. It creates a huge feeling of worthlessness and guilt in the victim for “enjoying” something they know should have been a bad thing or something they’re supposed to be ashamed of. That guilt for having “liked” it is used by the abuser to keep the victim silent.)

As a society, we have already approved “wickedness”. We are now in the process of giving societal approval to “abominations” in the scriptural sense of the word. And according to scriptures, that combination brings on dire consequences. We have the ancient warnings before us. We have also been given a recent warning in the form of the Proclamation on the Family.


Adam G.
February 8, 2013

Let’s not get too florid. The 1970s was probably the heyday of the push for acceptance of child sex, which we since retreated from, in some cases almost hysterically (the child abuse scare of the late 80s and early 90s, for instance).


Zen
February 8, 2013

Interesting point about the word, Abomination. I thought I would look it up in Strong’s Concordance.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8441&t=KJV

There are a few other words for abomination as well, but I am using this one. So far, I can see sins called abominable include homosexuality, cross-dressing, child sacrifice (abortion), and prostitution, though to be fair, there are also some lesser sins included like non-kosher foods. There are also some interesting warning about nations that allow such abominations.

I may investigate when I am not ‘busy’ working.


Vader
February 8, 2013

Shame for “enjoying” an act of rape is not limited to child victims. Adult victims of rape also suffer from it. The worst sufferers may well be the relatively small number of adult male victims of rape, and of these, the worst sufferers of all are likely the tiny minority who are raped by women.


Michael Towns
February 8, 2013

“The 1970s was probably the heyday of the push for acceptance of child sex, which we since retreated from”

I’m not so sure (that we’ve retreated). It’s hidden more.


Vader
February 8, 2013

We appear to be positively encouraging childhood sex, as long as no adult supervision is involved.


Bookslinger
February 8, 2013

From my informal surveys, I believe 20 to 25 percent of caucasian women are sexually abused by age 18, and up to 75% of African American women are. It’s somewhere in between for Hispanics.

The overall 25% figure that Oprah once cited is on the low end.

It really is an unspoken tragedy. If you can find your state’s online sex offender registry look up some numbers. I was shocked at the number of sex offenders among the populace of Indianapolis.

But also look at the messages our media and schools are giving. According to the TV show Glee, at what age do teens start having sex? In real schools, at what ages are condoms and morning after pills available?


Bookslinger
February 8, 2013

Adam, I haven’t even started to get florid. I’ve been trying to be clinical.

I think the mid-middle, lower-middle and lower classes are much more florid than your upper-middle class genteel upbringing can imagine.

Without exposure to the whole strata, most of the upper-middle class seems to think all homosexuals are the “born that way” and “cool and socially well-adjusted” Will-and-Grace types. The reality is different. The percentage of male homosexuals who were abused by a same sex adult is astounding, but the psych profession doesn’t seem to want to discuss those things because it doesn’t fit with a political agenda.


Adam G.
February 8, 2013

Bookslinger,

neither of us have hard or reliable data on this that I know of, so I don’t know that we can profitably disagree. But we do disagree. I don’t trust your anecdotal figures, even if my distrust is founded on my unrepresentative childhood on the elegant and quietly tasteful ancestral estates. Partly because there is a definitional problem when you include post-pubescent teens. I deplore teeny-bopper sex, but I wouldn’t call it child abuse in many cases.

I am open to the view that same-sex child abuse can be correlated with adult same-sex attraction and therefore possibly causative. A couple of abused gay guys I know are convinced that this is their story and I can’t gainsay them. But if the incidence of child abuse were as high as you say and the causation were as you’d say, there should be a lot more homosexuals than there are.

In any case, we agree more than not. I think the line our society is drawn that teenagers should be off-limits to adults is salutary but given other trends I don’t think its stable, unfortunately.


Bookslinger
February 9, 2013

Oops, sorry I didn’t delineate my sub-topics clearly enough. My comment about percentages was in regards to minor (under 18) female victims of non-consentual sexual contact by an opposite sex perpetrator. And I was not trying to correlate those numbers to homosexuality in women.

I don’t have prevalance figures for male victims of any sort, ie, what percentage of all males are sexually abused as minors. I did not mean to imply that the prevalance among females has any bearing on the prevalance among males. If anything, my guess is that the prevalance among males would be only a fraction of that among females.

In a separate comment above, I wished to point out an anecdotal correlation of homosexual men and same sex sexual contact as minors. This sub-topic is one my friends and I have come to learn during casual discussions with homosexual men that we have known. That being that if the subject of age-at-first-homosexual-sexual-contact (whether consentual or not) comes up, over half of those who have the question posed to them (it’s not something we casually ask everybody) admit to such a contact as a minor, including pre-pubescent ages.


Adam G.
February 11, 2013

Teen birth rates down:
http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/02/11/16900634-teen-births-plummet-to-record-low?lite

All birth rates are down, of course, and the study makes no effort to differentiate between married 19-year olds and unmarried 16-year olds. But its probably still good news. The usual suspects crow about the birth control culture, but if you read carefully you see signs that teens are fornicating less and later in their lives, which is all to the good.


Zen
February 11, 2013

I would agree, if I thought that less fornication was due to any kind of more righteous attitude. My own take, is that we are seeing less sex because of increasing pride, narcissism and worldly concerns, not because society is any more chaste.

Yes, all the evil of sin, without even the enjoyable parts. The worst of both worlds.


Adam G.
February 11, 2013

Zen,
certainly motive matters a great deal, but I always think of sin as something like running out onto a busy street. At some base level it doesn’t matter why you stay on the sidewalk so long as you do.


John Mansfield
February 12, 2013

If some 17-year-old couples having to get married were the price it took to clear the world of solitary 23-year-olds dividing their evenings between Xbox and pornography, I think I’d take that deal. Shotgun weddings have gone the way of rear-wheel drive, however, and overly amorous youth don’t make right what they’ve done out of turn. The deal I would accept isn’t on the table. I believe that may be why the Church’s message to youth about dating has changed over the decades. Only dating is groups wasn’t part of youth standards of yore. And now Elder Oaks has to nudge post-mission men that they’re not teenagers and should go spend some time alone with a woman.

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