Comments on: Their dominions upon the face of the earth were small

By: Adam G.

Adam G. — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:46:36 +0000

The War on Generosity:
http://juicyecumenism.com/2013/03/15/the-war-on-generosity/

By: Chrsitian J

Chrsitian J — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 22:49:01 +0000

I should have specifically addressed my question to the posters who made the insinuation (that government regulation is the primary reason for canneries and farms shutting down). Brother Greenwood seems to be highly offended by my [bumptious pushy illiteracy in] asking the question.

Vader, your anecdotes are helpful in giving me an idea where the assumption comes from. Thanks for sharing.

I ask the question as someone who has helped run successful for and non profit food organizations (health codes and all). My query was genuine.

By: Bookslinger

Bookslinger — Sat, 09 Feb 2013 16:18:32 +0000

The Indianapolis LDS cannery had to severely alter the way it worked. Years ago they shut down the wet-pack cannery, and did dry pack only. I’m not sure of the decision-making or reasons behind that.

Recently, they closed the dry-pack opeation so that ward members could no longer do individual or group dry-pack canning. The same goods are sold, beans, rice, wheat, etc. But, all the actual dry-pack-canning is now done by “trained and certified” individuals, still volunteers I believe, and the goods are then sold to the end user pre-packed in cans or pouches.

This latter change is due to regulations (state, I believe) that require food handlers to have gone through state-sponsored training courses and “Safe-serve” certified.

By: Vader

Vader — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 20:12:56 +0000

This is purely anecdotal, of course, but I know of at least two Church units that had to give up pizza fund-raising drives at the insistence of the local health authorities. No one actually was food poisoned, mind you — this would have been unlikely for take-and-bake pizzas in any case — but it illustrates the problem.

Another anectode: Our local cannery had to restrict the age of canning volunteers based on OSHA regulations. No more Boy Scout service projects at the cannery.

Adam’s point is well-taken, but I thought I’d be generous and supply some actual examples anyway.

By: John Mansfield

John Mansfield — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 18:29:40 +0000

Are there any non-profit canneries besides the LDS welfare system preparing food for other people? A couple minute search only turned up a town in Virginia operating a community can-your-own operation and a group in Seattle trying to start an operation that will can restaurant left-overs and send them to places with high rates of childhood deaths due to malnutrition.

By: Christian J

Christian J — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 17:40:19 +0000

Adam, my question may have not been clear. I took for granted the insinuation by other posters that the regulations were the cause of Church farms and canneries from operating fully – or at all. I’m asking for proof (even a shred) that this is even one of the factors influencing the Church’s decision. I’m also asking why the Church can’t function under the same rules that other successful non-profits (and for-profits for that matter) are expected to.

Mr. J.,
From what I can tell, you haven’t read the thread carefully, you have no real understanding of regulatory costs or how organizations respond to incentives, and you feel justified for no particular reason in making aggressive demands. Persuade me otherwise. I want at least two out of the three. Agressive, inattentive ignorance won’t fly.

By: Adam Greenwood

Adam Greenwood — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 21:06:55 +0000

Christian J.,
you’ve answered the own question. If there are standards that are imposed from outside, then state and federal regulation are “playing a role in what the church can and cannot do.” By definition.

By: Christian J

Christian J — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:47:52 +0000

I know state and federal regulation is playing a role in what the church can and cannot do

In regards to feeding the poor? Please provide specifics. Why can’t a church operate under the same standards as other successful non-profit and for-profit organizations?

By: John Mansfield

John Mansfield — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:59:47 +0000

Jay S., you were a more careful reader than I was. I read the discussion on pp. 10-11 about the LDS hospitals, but overlooked the preceeding paragraph about Southern Nevada Memorial’s role with Virmoa. I mistakingly thought that Southern Nevada Memorial only became involved toward the end of Virmoa’s service. I am left unclear in what sense Virmoa was a “forerunner” of the post-war LDS hospitals; perhaps because it was in an LDS community, using LDS property, and moved forward with the state by an LDS stake leader.

By: Jay S

Jay S — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 01:36:55 +0000

I find this an interesting post, and feel most of the additions I would make have been addressed. one point that must be corrected for historical accuracy. According to the link you provided, and the information I found online, the LDS church did not run the Virmoa hospital in overton. Rather, the building was constructed as the Stake Offices for the Moapa stake. Then when the majority of the membership of the church was in Las Vegas, stake offices were relocated there, leaving the building superfluous. It was at this time that the Southern Nevada Memorial Hospital (forerunner of UMC) established the maternity hospital and later emergency unit, leasing the building from the stake.

while your point is correct in that the church did establish other maternity hospitals, this was not one of them.