Comments on: Life Isn’t Fair http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/04/25/jeff-greason-preaches-the-space-religion/ We endeavor to give satisfaction Tue, 22 May 2012 16:20:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Vader http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/04/25/jeff-greason-preaches-the-space-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-31675 Vader Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:34:55 +0000 http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4883#comment-31675 I think we need to be careful about any explanation that makes Adam or Eve out to be uniquely sinful or depraved. If Eve had told Satan to take a hike, was there a Plan B? I don't know for sure. I don't know if the question is even meaningful when applied to an event that God was entirely capable of foreseeing. I think we need to be careful about any explanation that makes Adam or Eve out to be uniquely sinful or depraved.

If Eve had told Satan to take a hike, was there a Plan B? I don’t know for sure. I don’t know if the question is even meaningful when applied to an event that God was entirely capable of foreseeing.

]]> By: Adam Greenwood http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/04/25/jeff-greason-preaches-the-space-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-31673 Adam Greenwood Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:56:13 +0000 http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4883#comment-31673 <i>In backing vigorously away from this incorrect view, we sometimes risk backing over a cliff of our own.</i> I think it was Martin Luther who said we're at greatest risk of falling off the left side of a horse when we've just fallen off the right. Martin, I believe that Mormons are far to ready to think that we have complete explanations for mythic events like the Fall and the Atonement. I also agree that many Mormons have probably gone too far in trying to take the shades of grey out of Adam and Eve's choice. That said, I've taken my own stab at one possible explanation for the two commandments Adam and Eve had in the garden: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/02/why-did-god-give-contradictory-commandments/ In essence, I argue that subjecting oneself to evil is evil even if its the only way to truly know good and evil and thus progress. I acknowledge, however, hints in certain scriptures and certain places that maybe breaking the commandment wasn't necessary. How that could be I don't know. In backing vigorously away from this incorrect view, we sometimes risk backing over a cliff of our own.

I think it was Martin Luther who said we’re at greatest risk of falling off the left side of a horse when we’ve just fallen off the right.

Martin,
I believe that Mormons are far to ready to think that we have complete explanations for mythic events like the Fall and the Atonement. I also agree that many Mormons have probably gone too far in trying to take the shades of grey out of Adam and Eve’s choice.
That said, I’ve taken my own stab at one possible explanation for the two commandments Adam and Eve had in the garden:
http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/02/why-did-god-give-contradictory-commandments/
In essence, I argue that subjecting oneself to evil is evil even if its the only way to truly know good and evil and thus progress. I acknowledge, however, hints in certain scriptures and certain places that maybe breaking the commandment wasn’t necessary. How that could be I don’t know.

]]> By: Martin http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/04/25/jeff-greason-preaches-the-space-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-31669 Martin Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:07:43 +0000 http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4883#comment-31669 I agree with everything Vader said, and I wonder if we might not back over yet another cliff when we claim Adam had to disobey God by partaking of the fruit. This is doctrine I've heard from seminary on up, and the way it's discussed in the Book of Mormon seems to encourage this interpretation. However, it doesn't feel right to me. I just don't see how disobeying God can ever be the right thing to do. Seems to me Adam should have waited for further instructions before following Eve's example. Somebody's undoubtedly already done a post on this somewhere. Anyway, I like the inheritance/fairness dichotomy Adam brought up. I agree with everything Vader said, and I wonder if we might not back over yet another cliff when we claim Adam had to disobey God by partaking of the fruit. This is doctrine I’ve heard from seminary on up, and the way it’s discussed in the Book of Mormon seems to encourage this interpretation. However, it doesn’t feel right to me. I just don’t see how disobeying God can ever be the right thing to do. Seems to me Adam should have waited for further instructions before following Eve’s example. Somebody’s undoubtedly already done a post on this somewhere.

Anyway, I like the inheritance/fairness dichotomy Adam brought up.

]]> By: Vader http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/04/25/jeff-greason-preaches-the-space-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-31628 Vader Tue, 26 Apr 2011 02:36:49 +0000 http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4883#comment-31628 This ties into the Mormon view of Adam. We see him as a basically noble soul who helped bring about God's intent by voluntarily surrendering himself to a state of helplessness in bondage to sin. It kind of ties to Adam's (heh) earlier post on Christ, the second Adam, voluntarily surrendering himself to the consequences of bondage to sin, to break sin's hold on us all. This is very different from the typical creedal view, that Adam did something contrary to God's will or, if not really contrary to God's will, then nonetheless entirely depraved. Thus making all his descendants entirely depraved. In backing vigorously away from this incorrect view, we sometimes risk backing over a cliff of our own. This ties into the Mormon view of Adam. We see him as a basically noble soul who helped bring about God’s intent by voluntarily surrendering himself to a state of helplessness in bondage to sin. It kind of ties to Adam’s (heh) earlier post on Christ, the second Adam, voluntarily surrendering himself to the consequences of bondage to sin, to break sin’s hold on us all.

This is very different from the typical creedal view, that Adam did something contrary to God’s will or, if not really contrary to God’s will, then nonetheless entirely depraved. Thus making all his descendants entirely depraved.

In backing vigorously away from this incorrect view, we sometimes risk backing over a cliff of our own.

]]> By: psychochemiker http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/04/25/jeff-greason-preaches-the-space-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-31615 psychochemiker Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:50:59 +0000 http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4883#comment-31615 I think it is a very important point to make: Mormons do believe that without Jesus' atonement there would be original sin. There's a scripture in the PoGP that says because of Jesus' atonement, original sin has fled, and too many Mormons, and Mormon leaders incorrectly, and ascripturally assert "We don't believe in original sin." <blockquote> Moses 6:54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world. </blockquote> A more accurate statement would be, "We do not believe that original sin exists anymore because it was eradicated by Jesus atonement." God be thanked for the glorious gift of His holy Son. I think it is a very important point to make: Mormons do believe that without Jesus’ atonement there would be original sin. There’s a scripture in the PoGP that says because of Jesus’ atonement, original sin has fled, and too many Mormons, and Mormon leaders incorrectly, and ascripturally assert “We don’t believe in original sin.”

Moses 6:54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world.

A more accurate statement would be, “We do not believe that original sin exists anymore because it was eradicated by Jesus atonement.”

God be thanked for the glorious gift of His holy Son.

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