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	<title>Comments on: Sustainable Culture, Sidelined Pornography</title>
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		<title>By: agellius</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-25163</link>
		<dc:creator>agellius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-25163</guid>
		<description>Agreed.  Absolutely.  Free speech is not implicated because adults would have the option of removing the filter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.  Absolutely.  Free speech is not implicated because adults would have the option of removing the filter.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiffany W.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-25054</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiffany W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-25054</guid>
		<description>&quot;But while that is all true, its just a little abstract. The UK initiative highlights a more common-sense reason why kids and pornography don’t mix. Put the ethos and all that to one side. Sing a sick paean to the joys of privacy, porn, and a bottle of pump hand lotion. Tell yourself that watching Black Girls S**k C**k III is an awesome part of your marital intimacy. Pathetic and wrong, but whatever. You still don’t want children and young teenagers being exposed to porn and neither does anybody else. We have a widespread consensus that kids and porn don’t mix. So our default internet access to pornography therefore means that, online, in our culture children and childrearing are secondary to even hollow adult pleasures. An afterthought. A sideshow. In perhaps the important arena of modern life, we are agreeing that kids are a nuisance that if you insist on having, you’ll have to protect them yourself.&quot;

This statement is precisely why arguments for porn appall me. I&#039;ve seen several discussions on other LDS blogs really debating if porn is all that bad. And I just want to scream at them because they are totally missing the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But while that is all true, its just a little abstract. The UK initiative highlights a more common-sense reason why kids and pornography don’t mix. Put the ethos and all that to one side. Sing a sick paean to the joys of privacy, porn, and a bottle of pump hand lotion. Tell yourself that watching Black Girls S**k C**k III is an awesome part of your marital intimacy. Pathetic and wrong, but whatever. You still don’t want children and young teenagers being exposed to porn and neither does anybody else. We have a widespread consensus that kids and porn don’t mix. So our default internet access to pornography therefore means that, online, in our culture children and childrearing are secondary to even hollow adult pleasures. An afterthought. A sideshow. In perhaps the important arena of modern life, we are agreeing that kids are a nuisance that if you insist on having, you’ll have to protect them yourself.&#8221;</p>
<p>This statement is precisely why arguments for porn appall me. I&#8217;ve seen several discussions on other LDS blogs really debating if porn is all that bad. And I just want to scream at them because they are totally missing the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24913</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 03:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24913</guid>
		<description>Thoughtful:  Of course there are many (if not most) classroom teachers who are grown-ups (clear-thinking mature people), and there&#039;s the occasional school principal or superintendent who has their head screwed on straight.

But we have too many in education who consider themselves &quot;educators&quot; and &quot;educationalists&quot; who are not teachers, who are PC-liberal-progressive pinheads who&#039;ve now churned out more than a generation of pc-liberal-progressive pinheads  since 1980.

The system mainly consists of educated idiots (the administrators) who&#039;ve churned out UN-educated idiots who only THINK they&#039;re educated, when in fact they&#039;ve only been indoctrinated and trained.  And of the actual _educated_ graduates that they&#039;ve churned out, their education is tainted with the pc-progressive world-view and baggage.

Due to the idiots who are in positions of administration and &#039;curriculum development&#039; and all that, I have to conclude that the inmates are running the asylum, and that most public schools and public school boards are part of the problem. 

I&#039;ve dealt with a big-city public school.  I been exposed to the &quot;educationalist&quot; mind-set that has in effect &#039;dumbed down&#039; both the scholastic education of students (patronizingly lower expectations), worked to lower societal values (tolerating antisocial behavior), and worked to destroy families (forced cross-district busing which keeps parents from being involved with the school).  

Here in Indianapolis they ought to totally deconstruct the system and rebuild it from scratch.  

But the problem is that the school boards (which control the school administation/administrators) are publicly elected.  And the electorate is now PC-progressive-brainwashed, meaning the board will be PC-progressive, meaning the school system administration will be PC-progressive, and meaning both the curriculum and the societal microcosm in the school will be PC-progressive.

And the news media and entertainment industry do their best to keep the post-school electorate pc-progressive-brainwashed, so I don&#039;t see a solution to the &quot;cycles of stupidity&quot; (that we&#039;ve suffered with Carter, Clinton, and Obama) until clear-thinking and socially responsible people (ie, &quot;grown ups&quot;) who can analyze the trends of the past generations, learn from the mistakes, and extrapolate it to the future generation, can take back the educational establishment (ie, the thousands of school boards/administrations and college/university trustees/administrations).

From what I&#039;ve seen since I graduated high school in the 1970&#039;s, I&#039;d call the overall trend &quot;margin creep&quot;.

Although the header is about gay marriage, read this essay on &quot;Margin Creep&quot;, 
http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005244.html

Look at the specific sub-topic of teenage pregnancy in that essay, and think how that relates to the changes in how teenage pregnancy has been dealt with in high schools over the page 30 years.

Don&#039;t look at the present _snapshot_ of how things are in schools now.   Look at the slow _changes_, the &quot;deltas&quot; of the last 30 years. Compare 1980 with 2010. 

Actually, you can trace current trends of PC-progressivism back to the early 1960&#039;s, the pre-hippie &quot;Beat Generation&quot;.  It took about a generation to ramp up and sink in, and now it&#039;s been a 2nd generation with it in full effect.  How&#039;s it doing?  How has the percentage of drug-use, premarital sex, pornography consumption, abortion, illegitimate births, divorce, family stability, etc, etc, trended since then?

We&#039;re much more compassionate towards the poor unwed mother these days than in the early 1960&#039;s.   But while being rightly compassionate to individuals, we&#039;ve taken our sight off of and lost the battle against illegitimacy in the aggregate.  (Which harkens to the referenced essay on margin creep. Instead of being warned off of premarital sex, the next &#039;marginal&#039; girl - and boy - look forward to getting their ration of &quot;compassion.&quot;)

While having compassion for those who&#039;ve made bad choices, we&#039;ve taken our eyes off of and ignored the bigger picture, and overall trends, and have effectively declared that the bad choices are no longer bad. 

Isn&#039;t one of President Monson&#039;s refrains &quot;first pity, then endure, then embrace&quot;?   Man, how prophetic!   Pick any of the social or societal ills that have skyrocketed since the 1960&#039;s, and that is exactly what has happened. (pre-marital sex, abortion, divorce, infidelity, pornography, homosexuality, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thoughtful:  Of course there are many (if not most) classroom teachers who are grown-ups (clear-thinking mature people), and there&#8217;s the occasional school principal or superintendent who has their head screwed on straight.</p>
<p>But we have too many in education who consider themselves &#8220;educators&#8221; and &#8220;educationalists&#8221; who are not teachers, who are PC-liberal-progressive pinheads who&#8217;ve now churned out more than a generation of pc-liberal-progressive pinheads  since 1980.</p>
<p>The system mainly consists of educated idiots (the administrators) who&#8217;ve churned out UN-educated idiots who only THINK they&#8217;re educated, when in fact they&#8217;ve only been indoctrinated and trained.  And of the actual _educated_ graduates that they&#8217;ve churned out, their education is tainted with the pc-progressive world-view and baggage.</p>
<p>Due to the idiots who are in positions of administration and &#8216;curriculum development&#8217; and all that, I have to conclude that the inmates are running the asylum, and that most public schools and public school boards are part of the problem. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve dealt with a big-city public school.  I been exposed to the &#8220;educationalist&#8221; mind-set that has in effect &#8216;dumbed down&#8217; both the scholastic education of students (patronizingly lower expectations), worked to lower societal values (tolerating antisocial behavior), and worked to destroy families (forced cross-district busing which keeps parents from being involved with the school).  </p>
<p>Here in Indianapolis they ought to totally deconstruct the system and rebuild it from scratch.  </p>
<p>But the problem is that the school boards (which control the school administation/administrators) are publicly elected.  And the electorate is now PC-progressive-brainwashed, meaning the board will be PC-progressive, meaning the school system administration will be PC-progressive, and meaning both the curriculum and the societal microcosm in the school will be PC-progressive.</p>
<p>And the news media and entertainment industry do their best to keep the post-school electorate pc-progressive-brainwashed, so I don&#8217;t see a solution to the &#8220;cycles of stupidity&#8221; (that we&#8217;ve suffered with Carter, Clinton, and Obama) until clear-thinking and socially responsible people (ie, &#8220;grown ups&#8221;) who can analyze the trends of the past generations, learn from the mistakes, and extrapolate it to the future generation, can take back the educational establishment (ie, the thousands of school boards/administrations and college/university trustees/administrations).</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen since I graduated high school in the 1970&#8242;s, I&#8217;d call the overall trend &#8220;margin creep&#8221;.</p>
<p>Although the header is about gay marriage, read this essay on &#8220;Margin Creep&#8221;,<br />
<a href="http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005244.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005244.html</a></p>
<p>Look at the specific sub-topic of teenage pregnancy in that essay, and think how that relates to the changes in how teenage pregnancy has been dealt with in high schools over the page 30 years.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t look at the present _snapshot_ of how things are in schools now.   Look at the slow _changes_, the &#8220;deltas&#8221; of the last 30 years. Compare 1980 with 2010. </p>
<p>Actually, you can trace current trends of PC-progressivism back to the early 1960&#8242;s, the pre-hippie &#8220;Beat Generation&#8221;.  It took about a generation to ramp up and sink in, and now it&#8217;s been a 2nd generation with it in full effect.  How&#8217;s it doing?  How has the percentage of drug-use, premarital sex, pornography consumption, abortion, illegitimate births, divorce, family stability, etc, etc, trended since then?</p>
<p>We&#8217;re much more compassionate towards the poor unwed mother these days than in the early 1960&#8242;s.   But while being rightly compassionate to individuals, we&#8217;ve taken our sight off of and lost the battle against illegitimacy in the aggregate.  (Which harkens to the referenced essay on margin creep. Instead of being warned off of premarital sex, the next &#8216;marginal&#8217; girl &#8211; and boy &#8211; look forward to getting their ration of &#8220;compassion.&#8221;)</p>
<p>While having compassion for those who&#8217;ve made bad choices, we&#8217;ve taken our eyes off of and ignored the bigger picture, and overall trends, and have effectively declared that the bad choices are no longer bad. </p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t one of President Monson&#8217;s refrains &#8220;first pity, then endure, then embrace&#8221;?   Man, how prophetic!   Pick any of the social or societal ills that have skyrocketed since the 1960&#8242;s, and that is exactly what has happened. (pre-marital sex, abortion, divorce, infidelity, pornography, homosexuality, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24912</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 02:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24912</guid>
		<description>Adam:  If there could be a specific spigot just for porn and only porn, I&#039;d support the proposal.  But the problem with giving the government a tool, is that they&#039;ll figure out how to use it in ways it wasn&#039;t intended, such as RICO forfeitures.

First it will be porn, then it will be &quot;hate speech&quot;, and then Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will be put in the &quot;hate speech&quot; column. 

Youtube videos of people using legal and legally-owned large caliber firearms to blow up watermelons will be classified as &quot;violent&quot;.

Even some trailers of &quot;Glee&quot; in Internet news stories indicate that what I would consider pornography appear on that show.  But apparently, if it passes for network prime-time, the majority don&#039;t consider it porn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam:  If there could be a specific spigot just for porn and only porn, I&#8217;d support the proposal.  But the problem with giving the government a tool, is that they&#8217;ll figure out how to use it in ways it wasn&#8217;t intended, such as RICO forfeitures.</p>
<p>First it will be porn, then it will be &#8220;hate speech&#8221;, and then Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will be put in the &#8220;hate speech&#8221; column. </p>
<p>Youtube videos of people using legal and legally-owned large caliber firearms to blow up watermelons will be classified as &#8220;violent&#8221;.</p>
<p>Even some trailers of &#8220;Glee&#8221; in Internet news stories indicate that what I would consider pornography appear on that show.  But apparently, if it passes for network prime-time, the majority don&#8217;t consider it porn.</p>
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		<title>By: sth</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24903</link>
		<dc:creator>sth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24903</guid>
		<description>There are a whole host of legal and technological reasons why, for as &quot;devastating&quot; as pornography is, having the US federal government mandate that ISPs block it is an even worse idea.  But one reason that I haven&#039;t seen mentioned above is that blocking porn on your own home network is really, really easy and doesn&#039;t have to cost anything.  Just use &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.opendns.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OpenDNS&lt;/a&gt;, or any other equally good, already-set-up, non-government-mandated blocking services.

Knowing how to implement a technological solution for preventing porn from coming into your family&#039;s home network is a parenting skill that didn&#039;t exist a generation ago, but is essential now.  And just because many parents are failing to keep up, doesn&#039;t mean that we should go running to the government to take over our jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a whole host of legal and technological reasons why, for as &#8220;devastating&#8221; as pornography is, having the US federal government mandate that ISPs block it is an even worse idea.  But one reason that I haven&#8217;t seen mentioned above is that blocking porn on your own home network is really, really easy and doesn&#8217;t have to cost anything.  Just use <a href="http://www.opendns.com/" rel="nofollow">OpenDNS</a>, or any other equally good, already-set-up, non-government-mandated blocking services.</p>
<p>Knowing how to implement a technological solution for preventing porn from coming into your family&#8217;s home network is a parenting skill that didn&#8217;t exist a generation ago, but is essential now.  And just because many parents are failing to keep up, doesn&#8217;t mean that we should go running to the government to take over our jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24893</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24893</guid>
		<description>Great point, Stephanie.  Like Dr. Johnson and the Declaration of Independence, I think we can just appeal to the universal civilized moral sense on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point, Stephanie.  Like Dr. Johnson and the Declaration of Independence, I think we can just appeal to the universal civilized moral sense on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24888</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24888</guid>
		<description>Amen to that, Vader. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Note: the debate is centered around whether or not there exist scientific evidence to indicate that pornography harms children.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I fear for our children in a society where &quot;scientific evidence&quot; would be required to prove that porn harms children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to that, Vader. </p>
<blockquote><p>Note: the debate is centered around whether or not there exist scientific evidence to indicate that pornography harms children.</p></blockquote>
<p>I fear for our children in a society where &#8220;scientific evidence&#8221; would be required to prove that porn harms children.</p>
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		<title>By: Vader</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24881</link>
		<dc:creator>Vader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24881</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the real root problem is this: 

We are no longer a child-centered society. Children are now viewed as incidental and often inconvenient.

And that is a recipe for civilizational collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the real root problem is this: </p>
<p>We are no longer a child-centered society. Children are now viewed as incidental and often inconvenient.</p>
<p>And that is a recipe for civilizational collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24876</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24876</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Achieving this will work better than censorship or regulation, though it comes with its own challenging terrain&lt;/i&gt;

Its not either/or.  Without boundary maintenance, the core dissipates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Achieving this will work better than censorship or regulation, though it comes with its own challenging terrain</i></p>
<p>Its not either/or.  Without boundary maintenance, the core dissipates.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia K.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2011/01/27/sideline-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-24871</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/?p=4174#comment-24871</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A society by definition is about rich and multi-textured connections between people.&lt;/i&gt;

Achieving this will work better than censorship or regulation, though it comes with its own challenging terrain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A society by definition is about rich and multi-textured connections between people.</i></p>
<p>Achieving this will work better than censorship or regulation, though it comes with its own challenging terrain.</p>
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