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	<title>Comments on: You Want Justice.  You Need Justice.</title>
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	<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/</link>
	<description>We endeavor to give satisfaction</description>
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		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-81799</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 15:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Book of Mormon&#039;s doctrine that we would have no agency without the atonement adds an extra dimension to the ideas in this post.
See here:
http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2012/03/exploring-mormon-thought-agency/ (Also see the comments.)
And see here:
http://www.jrganymede.com/2012/02/17/korihor-and-terry-givens-vs-the-mormon-doctrine-of-original-sin/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Book of Mormon&#8217;s doctrine that we would have no agency without the atonement adds an extra dimension to the ideas in this post.<br />
See here:<br />
<a href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2012/03/exploring-mormon-thought-agency/" rel="nofollow">http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2012/03/exploring-mormon-thought-agency/</a> (Also see the comments.)<br />
And see here:<br />
<a href="http://www.jrganymede.com/2012/02/17/korihor-and-terry-givens-vs-the-mormon-doctrine-of-original-sin/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jrganymede.com/2012/02/17/korihor-and-terry-givens-vs-the-mormon-doctrine-of-original-sin/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-39765</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Its now clear to me that this theory isn&#039;t really a separate theory of the Atonement.  Its a way of explaining the substitutionary or ransom theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its now clear to me that this theory isn&#8217;t really a separate theory of the Atonement.  Its a way of explaining the substitutionary or ransom theories.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-16188</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you, Agellius.  Your view point is always welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Agellius.  Your view point is always welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: agellius</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-16185</link>
		<dc:creator>agellius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think it&#039;s an excellent theory, well expressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s an excellent theory, well expressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Eduard A. Erdtsieck</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-15970</link>
		<dc:creator>Eduard A. Erdtsieck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/#comment-15970</guid>
		<description>Atonement is a misunderstood concept. The idea to bring unity where a separation has occurred. What was the pre-cursor to it?

The Book of Mormon is the only place where it is found. That concept is CONDESCENSION; being obedient or compliant to the Proper Authority in the face or threats by other powers.

Not a well known concept, because we are more familiar with its negative connotation; condescending.

Yet, Joseph Smith, Jr understood the fullness of its meaning. That separation occurred before the creation of the earth and someone, a personage of spirit, who later became the Only Begotten Son of God consented to come down in the name of the Father to confront the purveyors of other powers.

He was then already worthy to be called a Son of God. We were called the &quot;spirit&quot; children of God.

To redeem us and to save the purveyors of these other powers for judgment by the Father; this Son of the Man of Holiness had to become subject to the ultimate punishment of these other purveyors, which was suffering and mortal death.

After His resurrection this Son of God was glorified by some in Gallillee and we know the story of His other sheep, the Nephites and Lamanites in the Book of Mormon.

He was falsely accused and His reputation greatly diminished. The Father and Jesus, Christ appeared at least 4 times to Joseph Smith, Jr. 

Joseph&#039;s first vision was the opener of His rule, when Father spoke, saying &quot;This is my Beloved Son. Hear Him.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atonement is a misunderstood concept. The idea to bring unity where a separation has occurred. What was the pre-cursor to it?</p>
<p>The Book of Mormon is the only place where it is found. That concept is CONDESCENSION; being obedient or compliant to the Proper Authority in the face or threats by other powers.</p>
<p>Not a well known concept, because we are more familiar with its negative connotation; condescending.</p>
<p>Yet, Joseph Smith, Jr understood the fullness of its meaning. That separation occurred before the creation of the earth and someone, a personage of spirit, who later became the Only Begotten Son of God consented to come down in the name of the Father to confront the purveyors of other powers.</p>
<p>He was then already worthy to be called a Son of God. We were called the &#8220;spirit&#8221; children of God.</p>
<p>To redeem us and to save the purveyors of these other powers for judgment by the Father; this Son of the Man of Holiness had to become subject to the ultimate punishment of these other purveyors, which was suffering and mortal death.</p>
<p>After His resurrection this Son of God was glorified by some in Gallillee and we know the story of His other sheep, the Nephites and Lamanites in the Book of Mormon.</p>
<p>He was falsely accused and His reputation greatly diminished. The Father and Jesus, Christ appeared at least 4 times to Joseph Smith, Jr. </p>
<p>Joseph&#8217;s first vision was the opener of His rule, when Father spoke, saying &#8220;This is my Beloved Son. Hear Him.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-15866</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/#comment-15866</guid>
		<description>I wonder if thoughts can be productively thought of as acts of spiritual creation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if thoughts can be productively thought of as acts of spiritual creation.</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-15865</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/#comment-15865</guid>
		<description>Adam:

Yeah, I suppose so -- my mind isn&#039;t philosophical enough to think of an act without consequence, even if the act (say a thought) is simply accretive. I&#039;m still trying to puzzle things out in detail, but obviously there must be some very good reasons for corporeality in terms of how progression operates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam:</p>
<p>Yeah, I suppose so &#8212; my mind isn&#8217;t philosophical enough to think of an act without consequence, even if the act (say a thought) is simply accretive. I&#8217;m still trying to puzzle things out in detail, but obviously there must be some very good reasons for corporeality in terms of how progression operates.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-15861</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Vader,
yours is a very good analogy for the Atonement and human theories about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vader,<br />
yours is a very good analogy for the Atonement and human theories about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Vader</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-15860</link>
		<dc:creator>Vader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for your thought-provoking report on another part of the elephant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your thought-provoking report on another part of the elephant.</p>
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		<title>By: Rameumptom</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2010/08/17/you-want-justice-you-need-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-15857</link>
		<dc:creator>Rameumptom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I tend towards the belief that Christ had to experience Chaos in its extreme, so that he could know how to rescue us from it. I also agree with Blake Ostler&#039;s model that the atonement continues each time we truly repent and Christ embraces us.  He momentarily feels our chaotic pain, but then heals us with his light and order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend towards the belief that Christ had to experience Chaos in its extreme, so that he could know how to rescue us from it. I also agree with Blake Ostler&#8217;s model that the atonement continues each time we truly repent and Christ embraces us.  He momentarily feels our chaotic pain, but then heals us with his light and order.</p>
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