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	<title>Comments on: Electric Cars</title>
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	<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/</link>
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		<title>By: Jacob Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4095</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4095</guid>
		<description>Mandating all new cars be flex fuel certainly seems reasonable step to take right now.  
I would even support a pilot project that has a methanol plant in gas region and a methanol pipeline to a nearby urban center to see how pipelines would handle methanol and how they would need to be upgraded.
However, between global warming fears and the corn lobby, I don&#039;t see how such a project would happen in the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandating all new cars be flex fuel certainly seems reasonable step to take right now.<br />
I would even support a pilot project that has a methanol plant in gas region and a methanol pipeline to a nearby urban center to see how pipelines would handle methanol and how they would need to be upgraded.<br />
However, between global warming fears and the corn lobby, I don&#8217;t see how such a project would happen in the United States.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4090</guid>
		<description>And what about cellulosic-ethanol (comes from sugar cane after juice is removed)?  That is much cheaper than corn-ethanol, but what&#039;s the relationship to gasoline?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what about cellulosic-ethanol (comes from sugar cane after juice is removed)?  That is much cheaper than corn-ethanol, but what&#8217;s the relationship to gasoline?</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4089</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4089</guid>
		<description>John, your use of the word &quot;just&quot; is confusing, because your second sentence contradicts the first.

Literally, your first sentence implies &quot;corn _is_ more expensive than oil for producing car fuel, but there are _additional_ reasons corn is more expensive than oil.&quot;

Did you mean to say:
&quot;Just to emphasis my last point, corn isn’t more expensive than oil when producing car fuel. It’s only more expensive than oil when used as a source of ethanol.&quot;  
IE: oil-ethanol is cheaper than corn-ethanol  which is cheaper than gasoline.

Or did you mean to say:
&quot;Just to emphasis my last point, corn is not only more expensive than oil for producing car fuel. It’s also more expensive than oil when used as a source of ethanol&quot; ? IE, corn ethanol is more expensive than _both_ gasoline and oil-produced ethanol.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, your use of the word &#8220;just&#8221; is confusing, because your second sentence contradicts the first.</p>
<p>Literally, your first sentence implies &#8220;corn _is_ more expensive than oil for producing car fuel, but there are _additional_ reasons corn is more expensive than oil.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you mean to say:<br />
&#8220;Just to emphasis my last point, corn isn’t more expensive than oil when producing car fuel. It’s only more expensive than oil when used as a source of ethanol.&#8221;<br />
IE: oil-ethanol is cheaper than corn-ethanol  which is cheaper than gasoline.</p>
<p>Or did you mean to say:<br />
&#8220;Just to emphasis my last point, corn is not only more expensive than oil for producing car fuel. It’s also more expensive than oil when used as a source of ethanol&#8221; ? IE, corn ethanol is more expensive than _both_ gasoline and oil-produced ethanol.)</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4085</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4085</guid>
		<description>True.  Much of the economic problems with ethanol are really problems with corn-based ethanol.

Jacob,
I guess my point is that electric motors for transportation is a technology that has yet to be developed, whereas flex-fuel combustion engines that can take ethanol, gasoline, or methanol already exists and only cost a few hundred dollars more to manufacture than gasoline engines, though if you add in their replacement cycle the real cost might be greater, I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True.  Much of the economic problems with ethanol are really problems with corn-based ethanol.</p>
<p>Jacob,<br />
I guess my point is that electric motors for transportation is a technology that has yet to be developed, whereas flex-fuel combustion engines that can take ethanol, gasoline, or methanol already exists and only cost a few hundred dollars more to manufacture than gasoline engines, though if you add in their replacement cycle the real cost might be greater, I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4051</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4051</guid>
		<description>Just to emphasis my last point, corn isn&#039;t just more expensive than oil for producing car fuel.  It&#039;s more expensive than oil simply as a source of ethanol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to emphasis my last point, corn isn&#8217;t just more expensive than oil for producing car fuel.  It&#8217;s more expensive than oil simply as a source of ethanol.</p>
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		<title>By: Vader</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4033</link>
		<dc:creator>Vader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4033</guid>
		<description>Ethanol can be made potable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ethanol can be made potable?</p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4030</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4030</guid>
		<description>If ethanol consumption as fuel ever takes off, I expect most of it will be produced by oil.  From Industrial Organic Chemicals by Wttcoff, Reuben, and Plotkin, page 136:

&quot;Until about 1950, ethylene was expensive and was obtained from frementation ethanol by dehydration&#8212;the reverse of the above processes [catalyzed ethylene hydration to produce ethanol].  With the advent of cheap ethylene from steam cracking, the petrochemical route to ethanol became more economical than fermentation.  By the early 1970s, scarcely any industrial ethanol was made by fermentation in the United States, although there was a legal requirement in most countries that potable ethanol be made in the traditional way.

&quot;In the United States in the 1980s, this trend was reversed when government subsidies were introduced to facilitate the production of ethanol by fermentation of corn starch.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If ethanol consumption as fuel ever takes off, I expect most of it will be produced by oil.  From Industrial Organic Chemicals by Wttcoff, Reuben, and Plotkin, page 136:</p>
<p>&#8220;Until about 1950, ethylene was expensive and was obtained from frementation ethanol by dehydration&mdash;the reverse of the above processes [catalyzed ethylene hydration to produce ethanol].  With the advent of cheap ethylene from steam cracking, the petrochemical route to ethanol became more economical than fermentation.  By the early 1970s, scarcely any industrial ethanol was made by fermentation in the United States, although there was a legal requirement in most countries that potable ethanol be made in the traditional way.</p>
<p>&#8220;In the United States in the 1980s, this trend was reversed when government subsidies were introduced to facilitate the production of ethanol by fermentation of corn starch.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4024</link>
		<dc:creator>bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4024</guid>
		<description>Two things coming up:
1) ethanol does not have to come from corn. &quot;cellulosic ethanol&quot; can come from what&#039;s left over after you squeeze the juice out of sugar-cane.  Brazil, and any wet tropical land, can produce mucho cellulosic alcohol, and at much cheaper rates than corn-sourced ethanol.  Even factoring in transportation costs, it&#039;s cheaper to import cellulosic ethanol from Brazil than it is to make it out of corn in the US.

2) Brazil discovered huge oil reserves off their coast, bigger than the Saudi Arabian peninsula&#039;s oil reserves.  Only trouble is, it&#039;s in very deep water, and new drilling technology needs to be made to get to it.  Over a hundred years&#039; worth of oil for the whole planet are there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things coming up:<br />
1) ethanol does not have to come from corn. &#8220;cellulosic ethanol&#8221; can come from what&#8217;s left over after you squeeze the juice out of sugar-cane.  Brazil, and any wet tropical land, can produce mucho cellulosic alcohol, and at much cheaper rates than corn-sourced ethanol.  Even factoring in transportation costs, it&#8217;s cheaper to import cellulosic ethanol from Brazil than it is to make it out of corn in the US.</p>
<p>2) Brazil discovered huge oil reserves off their coast, bigger than the Saudi Arabian peninsula&#8217;s oil reserves.  Only trouble is, it&#8217;s in very deep water, and new drilling technology needs to be made to get to it.  Over a hundred years&#8217; worth of oil for the whole planet are there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4017</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4017</guid>
		<description>Sorry the last link should have been:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel

It seems to be corrosive as well, although the article thinks that additives may solve that problem with minimal effort.
It seems methanol is currently recieving goverment support in Brazil, the last american program having been terminated in 2005.  The main article also says methanol is used as a transportation fuel in china but does not elaborate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry the last link should have been:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel</a></p>
<p>It seems to be corrosive as well, although the article thinks that additives may solve that problem with minimal effort.<br />
It seems methanol is currently recieving goverment support in Brazil, the last american program having been terminated in 2005.  The main article also says methanol is used as a transportation fuel in china but does not elaborate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-4013</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jrganymede.com/2009/08/25/electric-cars/#comment-4013</guid>
		<description>Some quick googling:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_transport#For_ethanol&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Problems with ethanol pipelines&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://ethanoltoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=5&amp;Itemid=6&amp;fid=14&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;An optimistic take and current status of ethanol and pipelines.&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Methanol as a fuel.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some quick googling:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_transport#For_ethanol" rel="nofollow">Problems with ethanol pipelines</a><br />
<a href="http://ethanoltoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=5&amp;Itemid=6&amp;fid=14" rel="nofollow">An optimistic take and current status of ethanol and pipelines.</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol" rel="nofollow">Methanol as a fuel.</a></p>
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